At one time, motocross was the poster child for a counter-culture movement seething from within America’s underground in the late 1990’s. Riding on the coattails (though co-dependent at one time) of Freestyle’s induction into the homes of millions through action sports festivals like the X Games and Gravity Games, motocross found itself in the limelight almost solely by association. The media coverage from magazines and videos to follow paralleled the anti-establishment tone that Freestyle embodied in raunchy advertisement, peer-conducted interviews, and uninhibited carnage captured on tape.
As often as we lust over those times, they’re always changing. Motocross as a counter-culture died years ago, and with it the independent spirit shared between its participants in the sport, and the creators in the media. I believe that there are a handful of people who still carry that spirit today, though, and Jordan is certainly one of them. The first time I came across his Vimeo account, which boasted a collection of videos peppered with eclectic music and poached SX footage, he’s been on my interview shortlist.
Once the opportunity came, our interview flowed more along the lines of casual conversation. We drift from time to time when talking about our hometown’s, racing, or Disney World, but I felt compelled to let go a little bit. Jordan’s breezy cadence and demeanor is infectious, as I’m sure even the toughest customer would be susceptible. Chill out on this interview and then blast some Turnstile on your way to the track, if you’re lucky enough to be riding right now. Thanks for the time, Jordan.
Discussion includes: Moto banter, the foundation of his relationship with motocross and Fox Racing, why Instagram sucks, societal conformity, challenges and rewards of running an independent publication, and plans to create the next open space for creators with Uniform, among other things…
World of Echo: It took a minute to pin you down, but it was great running into you at the Motocross of Nations, though! I wasn’t expecting that. That hasn’t happened often, meeting the subjects.
Jordan Hoover: I actually wasn’t even supposed to be anywhere near there! I had a beer in my hand inside the media tent! I was there as a true fan, pretty much.
What was that experience like?
Honestly, it was really cool as far as the magnitude of the event was concerned, but you could tell [something was off]. I also went to the Budds Creek Des Nations back in the day, and it was just a completely different vibe because we had the most epic team that kicked ass every moto. The crowd was going nuts! At RedBud everybody seemed super deflated – no one was cheering and it seemed the crowd decided, “This is kind of bullshit.”
I had directions to shoot some crowd footage during the race and I could hardly find anybody actively cheering!
You’d have to wait for Pastrana to come around.
Oh, yeah. I was super pumped for those guys. Just to see him and Windham roll out on the parade lap was unreal. Who would’ve thought we’d be seeing Travis Pastrana racing in the 2018 Motocross of Nations… on a two-stroke!
I was so pleased to hear that Ronnie Mac got replaced.
You weren’t a fan of the Mac?
No, not at all! I understand that Ronnie Mac has his own place in this world, but it definitely wasn’t at the Des Nations! That’s the most prestigious event we have, you shouldn’t bring in a comedian, some act, into it. Windham was a good replacement, I’d say.
Doesn’t get much better than K-Dub. However, I read Pastrana’s interview in the AMA mag where he mentions asking James Stewart to join the Puerto Rican team. Just chew on that: JS7 returns to RedBud.
People would’ve gone nuts.
They would’ve torn the fences down.
I wish someone could find that guy, though.
The last glimpse we got of James was that photo of him and Malcolm at the Seven offices.
He always comes out for the Seven Ride Day at his house too but, I don’t know. It’s just a shame how that last whack to the head made him end up. I have some interesting perspectives about the motocross industry, and I just wish there were some more outlets outside of the “racing” mentality that he could’ve appeared in, because I feel like he could’ve been the one to showcase another side to the sport – especially since he has so much talent. I think he could’ve shown that our sport has the potential to be on par with skateboarding or surfing in a lifestyle space. Instead he went the racing route, took Dungey’s handlebar to the head, and got completely wrecked.
For James to be as big as he was, and then virtually fade out undetected… one of the great mysteries of modern moto.
I kind of think that’s rad too though, that he just kind of stepped away. I do think he’s happy. Most people like to shine their big, luxurious lives onto the internet these days, the fact that he’s doing the complete opposite of that is cool to me. I wish I didn’t have to have an Instagram! I would love to not have to deal with that.
We’re all glum over here, but he’s all got something we don’t have! Real privacy.
Yeah! He’s fortunate to have made the money he did and now he can live the life he wants to.
How’s your life been going lately? We’ve talked about it a bit the few times we’ve tried to line up an interview. You live a pretty hectic life!
It’s as hectic as ever! My daughter is about to turn four in a couple of weeks and she’s not really at that point yet where she’s in school all day, so I juggle a lot at the moment. I have a couple of jobs that I do here in Jacksonville: I work in a metal fabrication shop, a tree service, do the Dad thing, and create whatever I can through a camera as well.
So you’re part-time with all of that stuff?
I would say so. I’m super fortunate that I don’t have to do “normality,” although there was a point in my life where I was doing that, reporting to work every week on my set schedule. In my later years I’ve been able to find friends that own their own businesses and understand my situation enough to let me come and go. They work with me super well. They’re stoked when they can use me, and when I can help them out I make sure to bust my ass to keep that relationship strong.
There are weeks where I tell them, “Hey, I have my kid Tuesday and Thursday, I can’t work those days.” And they’re totally cool with it and schedule me on different days. It’s a super flexible relationship I have with those guys. I’m lucky in that realm, for sure. My buddy Dave owns the metal shop, it’s called Main Made. And my buddy Durham owns Durham Parker’s Tree Service.
You cut down trees and shit?
Yeah… [laughs] Durham is actually a certified arborist, so he’s very knowledgeable with plant life. We don’t just take down trees and stuff for nothing. We do a lot of dead tree removal, stuff that might endanger housing, and taking care of trees basically.
Do you guys deal with invasive species as well?
Absolutely.
My sister coincidentally studied forestry at Purdue, so she’s really into that stuff. She works for the Conservancy in Gary, Indiana.
That’s cool! Is that where you are, Indiana?
Yeah, we’re about an hour outside of Gary.
Has it been negative fifty degrees there lately?
It has! I’m not sure what the true temperature was, something around negative twenty. But yeah, it was cold as shit!
That’s crazy! We don’t do cold down here. Summer’s get hot, but nothing to complain about.
You’ve always been in Florida?
I was born in Orlando, yeah. I lived there, and I’ve been in Jacksonville for about eight years now. Florida has always had a pretty solid racing scene, which is wild. In the mid-2000’s it was really wild. We used to have this series called the Florida Gold Cup Series, and the Winter Ams series. I’d be in the 85 class and there’d be three qualifiers to get into the second moto! It was super gnarly. It’s the complete opposite now, there’s no one here anymore unless you’re training. The local racing has really gone away.
Loretta’s still pulls big numbers. Mini O’s, JS7 Spring Championship, and that SX Futures series seems to be doing alright as well. On a local level it doesn’t really seem to make sense to race anymore.
I think that SX Futures series is only going to grow, too. It’s pretty rad to see them do that. The coolest thing I’ve been hearing about the series is that the fees aren’t astronomical. It’s a set amount for each class, $65 I believe. That’s insane to be able to race in the same stadium as the pros. If you go to Mini O’s, it’s around $125 for a class. It might even be more now actually, but that’s a great event too. I think the Futures series is great for the sport, for sure.
It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. I got some questions set up here if you want to jump in. How much time do you have?
As much time as you need. I’ve been psyched to get to do this, so I want to do it right!
It seems like you’re pretty deep into this Document Magazine project. This is the second year you’ve been doing it?
I think the first issue came out in March of 2017. It’s about to be two years coming up, I suppose. It feels like I’ve been doing it for much longer, because I’ve learned so much since I started. I pretty much started something from scratch, by myself, and I said that when I started that this would get easier over time – but it hasn’t! The more qualified I try to make it, the more organized I try to make it, the more I find on my plate every day. That’s why I’ve kind of taken a little step back lately, and I’m looking for a little reincarnation of the project in March of 2019. The magazine is kind of re-releasing itself at Daytona again this year, and I think it’s been since Des Nations that I’ve been working on this second iteration of the project. I finally gave it an official name too! Lots of restructuring and progression going on in a way that I see fit.
“Social media is something that is wildly overestimated. People just scroll past all of your posts to see the next best thing…”
I noticed a few weeks back that your Instagram handle went from document.magazine to uniform.x.x.x. as well – How does that relationship work? Are you becoming your own publisher as well as content creator?
Basically, yeah. I decided to call the whole thing Uniform, since it’s such an unconventional business model. We don’t have deadlines, we don’t have set projects, and we really don’t even know what we’ll get into! My community has been building in regards to outside contribution, which is something that I’ve been striving for since the beginning. I never wanted it to be a platform that only hosted my own work. I never wanted to create something that might as well be my name with all of my work under it. I wanted to create this platform that gives anyone who wants to create uniquely to utilize. A platform that is respected and worth putting things out on.
That’s one of the reasons why I’ve always struggled with the social media side of things, because I don’t think social media platforms are deserving of any type of meaningful content. Social media is something that is wildly overestimated. People just scroll past all of your posts to see the next best thing, no matter how cool the content you put on there is.
But that’s what we’ve been doing behind the scenes, growing and creating. I’ve even gathered a few friends on board, like my buddy [Nebraska-based Florida transplant] Chase Couture. He helped push me in the right direction with design and learning in that space. I’ve really just been trying to gather some consistency with this whole thing. We’ll have a website by March with some regular features, always plugging different artists. It’s not completely stepping away from dirt bikes, but we do want to showcase beyond that. My ties will always be dirt bikes, that’s my lineage and where most of my work comes from, but I’ve always been heavily into music and skateboarding as well, and I want to be able to explore that.
It’s tough making it in the motorcycle industry. I mean, I always knew it was hard because I’ve known people in the industry, but I never really knew until I put something out with a dollar sign on it. I’m at that age too where you experience that transitional period of losing friends, or not having as many friends as when you were young. Now once you put something out that all of your buddies want for free and you say, “no,” you start to lose more friends than you want to! It’s been wildly educational. I never went to school for this stuff, so it’s been a huge learning curve.
I understand that your brother Austin has been doing things with Fox Racing over in Europe. Have you always had a window into the industry through him?
It really started with my Dad, who grew up racing in the seventies when all of this madness was getting started. He rode for American Suzuki back in the day and was good buddies with Mark Barnett. I’ve known Mark since I was in diapers, basically. My Dad was our family’s gateway into the world of dirt bikes and through that we’ve always had close ties with the Fox family, all while relevant throughout the sport’s ups and downs. We were around when it wasn’t cool, when it was popular, when it was crowded, when it was empty… I was born and raised at the track and I never really left. I’ve seen plenty of people come and go, and I think the key to our success has been that we stuck around, stayed relevant, and stayed true to the sport. We’ve always been loyal and trustworthy.
When my brother finished school he was lucky enough to get a job with Fox out in Irvine, California, and they just recently moved him out to the European headquarters in Barcelona, Spain. That’s how all of this [Uniform] kind of started, because I was never sent to a race by a media company with orders on what to shoot. I more or less fell into this, because the way I saw it, those were just my friends out there racing and I happened to take some cool pictures of them. I was already into photography through skateboarding and punk rock music, and while I didn’t always have the nicest gear I found myself in great situations.
You were more or less a fan with unlimited access, and a camera! You could probably get into a lot of situations that most staff photographers couldn’t.
I wouldn’t catch any judgement from the riders either, and I know how they can be with the general media sometimes. I’ve never been around the riders with a recorder or anything like that, asking them questions and shit, I’ve just been amongst them. I would never name any names, but knowing what I know, the way the athletes still talk to me is crazy. They talk because they know I’m trustworthy. I’ll hear stuff from them and once it goes live on Instagram every media outlet jumps on top of it and covers it to the point where it becomes mundane. It’s repetitive. That mentality is everywhere though, just look at politics now, news outlets are practically reporting off of Twitter-based accusations. The world is so skewed by all of these devices that everyone’s addicted to. It’s unreal.
There’s so much of that behavior going on that I’d almost liken it to shouting into the void.
There are no more surprises anymore. No curiosity. Everybody already knows everything because it’s all out there.
You wrote a bit about that relationship you have with riders in issue five of Document. You were at Chad Reed’s place shooting some photos. You wrote, “We’re not here to report, we’re here to support.” You’re a confidant to these people.
It’s surreal to get that from Chad. I never in my life would have thought that guy would be someone who trusted me, or even spoke to me! It’s insane. Another one is Ricky Carmichael. He’s the best dude, ever. Forget about anything he ever did on a dirt bike, he’s just one of the most genuine humans that I’ve ever come across. He’ll give you his full attention and listen to you when you’re talking to him, no matter what you’re talking about. He’s one of the best dudes I know.
Stepping back a little bit, before working with Evergood and starting Document, was 24exp the trial run for what would eventually become Document?
Yeah, 24 Exposures. It was the first step, I’d say. I have a super interesting relationship with names, meaning that I’ve always struggled with naming things. I think naming things is one of the hardest tasks in the world… and then I had to name a kid! It took my wife and I so long to name our daughter.
This all started when I was a kid though, because my parents gave me a name that they never once called me by, so I always went by my middle name. It didn’t help that my mother taught my public school classes from preschool to fifth grade, so I didn’t know my legal name until I got to middle school. I was eleven in sixth grade, and at that point in your life everything is just exploding and everything’s changing. I lived pretty close to downtown Orlando, and middle school was a snowball effect of bad things for a lot of kids. I watched a lot of kids I grew up skating with take some bad turns around eighth and ninth grade. I’m pretty much scarred from names.
But yes, 24exp was the first attempt. It was a feature I did towards the end of Vurbmoto’s tenure and I think they might’ve actually called it “Film Burned.” I typically shoot 36 exposure rolls anyway, which I started doing around the time I turned twenty, but I learned how to shoot when I was fourteen or sixteen.
Shooting on film?
Yes. I started when I was fourteen, and I had a photography class when I was sixteen and learned how to work in the darkroom and such. From about seventeen to twenty though, I was pretty focused on racing and I wasn’t creating as much. 24exp was just a name I came up with so I could start putting out content, and plus a thirty-six roll never came out that well anyway, so I figured twenty-four was a good mark to get stuff that’s usable.
You mind if I talk about Evergood for a bit? You mentioned that a little bit ago.
Not at all.
There’s a lot of fuzziness there with people’s perception between myself and the Evergood group. I’m not technically a part of that group, and those guys are just my buddies. Tom [Journet], [Eric] Shirk, and Matty [Matt Rice] are all awesome dudes, and anytime they come knocking and need help I’m there for them. Besides that, I don’t really have much to do with that.
So you’re more like the fifth Beatle, then?
I don’t even know if it’s that… I’m more like a pair of shoes that are kept away in the closet if they need it for a wedding. It’s pretty irregular. I help them with their races, mostly. They did two last year and one the year before that. I have a lot of event experience so I’m good with setup and I’m not afraid to bust my ass to do what I have to do. Whether it’s getting banners up all over a track, or spending a whole night driving someone to and from the airport. I’m just a team player and those are my boys, I’ll be there anytime they need me.
That’s awesome to hear there’s so much camaraderie between you guys. It’s not so much about competition as it is about collaboration.
Absolutely. Collaboration is my main goal and another reason why I’m transitioning away from calling this a magazine, because I don’t want to be associated with as a magazine brand. At the end of the day, I’m just a creator trying to put good into the world. I don’t want to make enemies with Racer X and I don’t want to piss of Motoplayground, I just want to be even-keeled with everyone and not step on any toes. I’m here to be amongst the sport that I love. I’m not trying to make a dollar off it… I’m just not trying to lose any more dollars.
Speaking of collaboration, the last issue of Document was chock-full of collabs from guest photographers and writers. You’ve got Garth Milan, Christian Spinella, Chase Lock…
My good friend Jordan Hunt from Australia, he was a welcome addition as well. There’s going to be zines throughout the year in 2019, much like in years prior, that are more punk-rock and organic. Not so perfect. There may be some projects that come out featuring my own works and words exclusively, but I have plans to go beyond that. I want to introduce a year-end photo book this year like we did in September of last year. That one will be on a larger scale with multiple contributors and be more of an open space. That’s truly what I’m striving for, to make an open space for creation. No set guidelines, nothing uniform. Sticking with the out of the ordinary.
I spoke with Ben Giese last year about META and his thoughts on the future of the publication, and that was one of the ideas he bounced around [having a photo annual]. It’s interesting to hear you share the same sentiment – to relieve the pressure of a monthly magazine – but even META still operates on a three-month schedule. You’re taking it a step further and going with no set plan.
Yeah, and I think that really derives from feeling. I’m never one to force things, I want things to come out as organically and pure as possible because I think that’s when pure feeling is showcased properly. I had a ‘zine all but wrapped up from Loretta Lynn’s this year, and I didn’t like it. I finished it, and I said, “You know what, I don’t like this. I’m not going to do it.” And, I didn’t waste my money!
For the past two years I’ve been doing this, I’ve been dipping into my own wallet and paying for it. At this point, operating solely in the dirt bike world, it hasn’t come to fruition the perception of how people think about the project. People just don’t really grasp it. The support is there, people will tell you all day long how rad your project is, but at the end of the day it boils down to whether or not that person is going to buy what you’re selling. Thanks and appreciation don’t pay your rent, you know? That’s why I’ve been bouncing around doing whatever jobs I can to keep my life operational. You’ve gotta live!
I don’t want to say you have to reprogram the audience, but what you do and what META do are the antithesis to the industry’s media norms of the last fifteen years. The monthly magazines, the race reports, the injury lists…
[All of that content] makes it irrelevant. It’s almost numbed me to the sport. On the other hand, it’s adjusted the relationship I have with the sport once again. I’ve gone through some shit, obviously, as racing didn’t quite pan out for me – another thing I did out of my own pocket as well. Luckily my Dad loves it and he’d help as much as he could so I wasn’t going broke, but I didn’t have any money outside of that. We were putting everything into it and it just didn’t pan out, which allowed me to step away.
I always maintained that relationship I had with Fox though, and when I came back to the sport I got thrown into a job with a camera. Fox knew I made stuff, but up and to that point I had never even filmed a dirt bike in my entire life. A few weeks before Loretta Lynn’s they called me up and pitched this video idea to me. I felt a little odd about it, but I’d never say no to those guys! If they believed I could do it, I’d do it. I ended up doing really well with that, and the following weekend I was up in Maryland filming a championship video for Kenny [Roczen]. It all spiraled from there.
It also pushed me to a breaking point, in a way. It stressed me out because I wasn’t ready, and it was stress that was all my own. There wasn’t anybody telling me that I wasn’t good enough, or that I needed to improve this or that, it was all on me. It was stuff I was doing to myself that made me not even want to film dirt bikes, really. It’s been an interesting journey for me in the media world of dirt bikes. Lately, it’s been scaled back as far as the work that I do. There’s not really much work for me knocking at the door right now, but it allows me to pick and choose how I create and who I can work with. It’s much more open, which is the best.
I’m more involved and in-tune with riding than ever, meaning I’m racing more than ever too, which is great because I’ve always needed that in my life. I keep my relationships in the industry just by being at the track, really. I think it rubs some people the wrong way [when I’m at the track] and I say, “No, I won’t make you an edit.” Or, “No, I can’t take your picture.”
Dude… I know! [laughs]
But I have to be truthful with them as to why I don’t. If I’m taking pictures that day and they ask if I got one of them I’ll say, “Oh no, sorry. I shot a couple of my friend, but that’s it. I’m just here to race as well.”
That hits close to home. Sorry!
No, that’s good! I’m glad. That’s how it should be, you know? It stinks because some people just started coming to the races that don’t ride or race, and they’ll go and blast a thousand photos that anyone can download. At the end of the day sure, it’s good work, but that’s not something that I want to be doing. I can’t bring myself to that. It rubs people the wrong way when you’re not like that and people go, “Oh, you’re a dude with a camera at the track, why don’t you do it like this guy does?”
And I have to go, “Well, I’m not that guy!”
“Can you make me an edit, bro?” …No! [laughs]
They’re like, “Oh, I’ll give you $40 for an edit!”
“…Nah, I’m actually good. You know this is really fucking hard, right?” [laughs]
It’s crazy. I’ve raced Loretta’s a couple of times, and I’ve worked Loretta’s even more. Let me tell you, it is ten times harder to go shoot with a camera all day than it is to race that event. It’s just grueling. People don’t get it. We’re lugging cameras around all day, even in the slop when it’s awful out. For example, when I met you at Des Nations I could tell you were just exhausted! That’s just how it is. Sometimes you want to do that though, and it feels good.
It’s hard to explain.
It can also become a whirlwind, to where you can’t really take in what’s going on around you. Sometimes I find that when you’re really putting your best foot forward to try to execute, you’re missing out on the essence of the event. It’s so much better with a video camera though, to be amongst the moment. I’ve gone in and out of digital photography a few times; you get so lost with that thing.
I think you wrote about that, about your experience at the Hangtown national. You took thousands of photos and didn’t remember what happened.
Yep, I missed the whole race! And all of my photos ended up looking just like the next guy’s. I also have a roll of film from that day full of amazing pictures.
*Nah, sorry man!*
Sorry, I just got asked for a smoke.
Oh… snap!
I’m in the middle of downtown Jacksonville right now, sitting across from one of my favorite stores.
What’s that?
It’s called Midnight Sun Imports. They have a bunch of obscurities from Indonesia. Jewelry, wood carvings, instruments… that type of stuff. It’s an eclectic place.
Sounds crazy!
Yeah, there’s some interesting stuff around here.
We can get up to Chicago sometimes for the craziness, but there’s really nothing in Indiana. We’ve got five about auto parts stores and a bunch of “shit shops,” which is just old building space that people sell their garbage in. Old records and stuff.
That actually sounds kind of interesting. I love old records!
No, I know what you’re thinking. I love records too but these aren’t worth the dive.
I got to spend about a day and a half in Chicago after Des Nations though, so that was pretty enjoyable. There’s so much culture and food there. That’s a really cool city.
I feel like it’s a really relaxed city too. I don’t know what it is about Chicago that makes it that way.
Good people! Lots of nice people up there. Jacksonville is also a town of really good people as well. But the town I grew up in, Orlando? Bunch of dickheads. [laughs] I think people are pissed off in Orlando because they’re in a tourist town, and they don’t want to be. They don’t like people.
I love tourism though, my Dad worked at Disney for twenty years, and if it wasn’t for tourism he wouldn’t have had that job! I respect tourism, it’s a good thing.
Good people watching, too.
I’d go to Disney a lot because we could get in for free with my Dad, and I’d just go sit in the Epcot Center with a beer from Germany to watch the madness. All of these people who are pissed off for no reason.
My brother though… funny story. This guy talked so much shit to my brother one time. We were all leaving from the park and this guy was dragging his kid along and yelling at him. My bother just kind of chirped him and said, “Happiest place in the world!” And the dude turned around and goes, “You can FUCK OFF!” We were cracking up. Those people get too serious.
Hardcore vacationing.
It’ll get you! It’s like $120 to get into the gate, $4 for a water bottle. That place is a money pit. $30 to park you car. I get it, money just brings stress.
Garth Milan photo from Document, Issue 2
Speaking of money. You mentioned Document, and now Uniform, is out of your own pocket. You shoot almost exclusively on film as well. Do you recoup costs from selling the mags? Do you get any coin from the ads you run?
I think in this issue I’ve had six ads I believe, which they all start at the root of a friendship, those ads. I’m fortunate enough to have that friendship with Fox still, and the other ones as well. It’s not a large chunk of money, but every ad that went in there was one less dollar out of my pocket. The goal with starting to utilize ad space was to minimize out-of-pocket expense, and all I can say is that we got closer to where we want it! There’s still some costs I have to handle because working in print isn’t cheap, but it’s something that I believe in and that’s where we’re going to stay.
Everyone will start to see some more online content though, but I want it to stay relevant to what’s printed in the pages. There’s some regular online features to be looking forward to, 24exp being one of them. That idea will transition into an online page where two film photographers will be featured every month. Who knows, maybe every week? It just depends on how much we grow and how much people want to showcase. That’s where the video camera I recently bought comes in as well, because obviously you can’t put a video onto paper!
The website will be called “uniformco.internet.” At this point, the three x’s on our Instagram mean that we’re getting ready to launch. A subtle vagueness to touch on rebellion. We’ll have “uniform – instagram,” “uniform – internet,” and “uniform – documents.” It’ll all be similar, but now it’s under the Uniform name. Since it’s all out of the ordinary, it’s becoming a uniform thing for us.
“We can find beauty in all.”
That all sounds pretty ambitious!
I hope I can make it all happen! I think it’s February now, and I have more on my plate than ever, but I think I can do it. I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s so good to be able to have your hands in everything, not that I lust for control, but it’s nice to be involved in what you love. It’s like you’re betting on yourself, putting all your trust in yourself. Instead of taking out a school loan, I put all that money into myself and these projects, and I remind myself of that every day. It gets super stressful, but you just have to hold on to the dream.
I think in art circles that money is best spent on yourself, not in school. Not to say that higher education is inherently bad.
No way! To each his own. At the end of the day, school is for yourself. No one goes to school for someone else. Well, you do until you’re eighteen and decide to go to college, which is why I never went!
I couldn’t even stand high school, I couldn’t stand that they thought this was the way you should be taught. I never learned from that environment. I always operated on my own terms, and I always did good in school, but I wasn’t awarded with good grades because I didn’t do it how they were asking me. I was still recognized by my teacher’s for not sucking, basically. They weren’t going to give me an A, but I got a C because I did good.
You were the kid who didn’t study or listen and then ace’d the test?
I think I listened too well. I was too aware and too willing to rebel. I wasn’t afraid to talk to my teachers like they were my peers, in a way. I wasn’t afraid to weigh in on the topics they had and question them.
They’re sitting there going, “Jordan, just shut up and listen!”
“Why can’t you just listen to what I tell you?”
I don’t believe in a writing structure. If I told my old English teachers that I write and publish my own work, they’d probably laugh at me! They’d say I sucked at writing. I don’t think I do though, I just didn’t want to write what they wanted me to. What’s a sentence structure in early schooling? I don’t even know. They used to force you to start paragraphs with certain terminology. There was a set way to start everything.
You’d have your introductory sentence. Certain phrases. Maybe write an essay about a specific topic.
Yeah, it’s too much. They’re just brainwashing you, is all. They’re funneling people through a system that makes you believe in a type of lifestyle that they want to you live. They want you to rely on a certain income because they plan to make X amount of dollars off of each one of us. There’s a big old system of puppeteers somewhere.
There are some big unknowns out there. I’m sure anything is possible. Not to say that you’re crazy or anything.
It’s ok to be a little crazy! You’ve got to be a little left field.
You also have to be careful of what you say and how you say it, especially when it comes to these things. There’s always someone listening, watching, and paying attention to what you’re doing. All of that shit. People will snatch you up and take you to that Area 51 place.
We’ve been talking for almost an hour. It’s gonna be raw in the transcribing session! I’ll let you know when I’m done so you can look it over if you want anything taken out.
Thanks. I’m a pretty honest person and sometimes I get worried about what I say and what might get put out there, but I’m also learning to just trust my voice lately. The content that will start coming from me on Uniform in the coming months will be a little more unique. I’ve held back, for sure. I’ve got some interesting outlooks on life, I’d say. I’m trying to let those truths out a little more and not fear judgement.
I think there’s some value to that, in writing. It may put people off, but that ultimately might not be somebody you want associating with your work.
I think that’s what’s going to really take me away from dirt bikes a bit, because it’s not a super open-minded community. I’ve been getting super involved in my local area, and luckily Jacksonville is a pretty youthful town with an emerging art scene. I’ve really just scaled back. I’m not going to Anaheim 1 to try to get a picture like everyone else, I’m finding uniqueness in other worlds while keeping ties with the sport I love.
That’s what’s cool about it, and the gathering I’ve gotten from the sport so far, they understand that. I don’t really think they’re going to go anywhere. Maybe we’ll grow more in the world of dirt bikes, maybe we won’t, but the truest thing is that we don’t want anyone supporting us that doesn’t believe in us. We don’t want internet warriors talking shit on every post we make. We don’t want hostility. I promote a happy lifestyle; to each his own. Everyone has their own obstacles to overcome in life and we’re open to hear from anyone or put out any type of thing. We can find beauty in all.
You can find Jordan occasionally on Instagram at @jordanhoov, or in and around Jacksonville.
At one time, motocross was the poster child for a counter-culture movement seething from within America’s underground in the late 1990’s. Riding on the coattails (though co-dependent at one time) of Freestyle’s induction into the homes of millions through action sports festivals like the X Games and Gravity Games, motocross found itself in the limelight almost solely by association. The media coverage from magazines and videos to follow paralleled the anti-establishment tone that Freestyle embodied in raunchy advertisement, peer-conducted interviews, and uninhibited carnage captured on tape.
As often as we lust over those times, they’re always changing. Motocross as a counter-culture died years ago, and with it the independent spirit shared between its participants in the sport, and the creators in the media. I believe that there are a handful of people who still carry that spirit today, though, and Jordan is certainly one of them. The first time I came across his Vimeo account, which boasted a collection of videos peppered with eclectic music and poached SX footage, he’s been on my interview shortlist.
Once the opportunity came, our interview flowed more along the lines of casual conversation. We drift from time to time when talking about our hometown’s, racing, or Disney World, but I felt compelled to let go a little bit. Jordan’s breezy cadence and demeanor is infectious, as I’m sure even the toughest customer would be susceptible. Chill out on this interview and then blast some Turnstile on your way to the track, if you’re lucky enough to be riding right now. Thanks for the time, Jordan.
Discussion includes: Moto banter, the foundation of his relationship with motocross and Fox Racing, why Instagram sucks, societal conformity, challenges and rewards of running an independent publication, and plans to create the next open space for creators with Uniform, among other things…
World of Echo: It took a minute to pin you down, but it was great running into you at the Motocross of Nations, though! I wasn’t expecting that. That hasn’t happened often, meeting the subjects.
Jordan Hoover: I actually wasn’t even supposed to be anywhere near there! I had a beer in my hand inside the media tent! I was there as a true fan, pretty much.
What was that experience like?
Honestly, it was really cool as far as the magnitude of the event was concerned, but you could tell [something was off]. I also went to the Budds Creek Des Nations back in the day, and it was just a completely different vibe because we had the most epic team that kicked ass every moto. The crowd was going nuts! At RedBud everybody seemed super deflated – no one was cheering and it seemed the crowd decided, “This is kind of bullshit.”
I had directions to shoot some crowd footage during the race and I could hardly find anybody actively cheering!
You’d have to wait for Pastrana to come around.
Oh, yeah. I was super pumped for those guys. Just to see him and Windham roll out on the parade lap was unreal. Who would’ve thought we’d be seeing Travis Pastrana racing in the 2018 Motocross of Nations… on a two-stroke!
I was so pleased to hear that Ronnie Mac got replaced.
You weren’t a fan of the Mac?
No, not at all! I understand that Ronnie Mac has his own place in this world, but it definitely wasn’t at the Des Nations! That’s the most prestigious event we have, you shouldn’t bring in a comedian, some act, into it. Windham was a good replacement, I’d say.
Doesn’t get much better than K-Dub. However, I read Pastrana’s interview in the AMA mag where he mentions asking James Stewart to join the Puerto Rican team. Just chew on that: JS7 returns to RedBud.
People would’ve gone nuts.
They would’ve torn the fences down.
I wish someone could find that guy, though.
The last glimpse we got of James was that photo of him and Malcolm at the Seven offices.
He always comes out for the Seven Ride Day at his house too but, I don’t know. It’s just a shame how that last whack to the head made him end up. I have some interesting perspectives about the motocross industry, and I just wish there were some more outlets outside of the “racing” mentality that he could’ve appeared in, because I feel like he could’ve been the one to showcase another side to the sport – especially since he has so much talent. I think he could’ve shown that our sport has the potential to be on par with skateboarding or surfing in a lifestyle space. Instead he went the racing route, took Dungey’s handlebar to the head, and got completely wrecked.
For James to be as big as he was, and then virtually fade out undetected… one of the great mysteries of modern moto.
I kind of think that’s rad too though, that he just kind of stepped away. I do think he’s happy. Most people like to shine their big, luxurious lives onto the internet these days, the fact that he’s doing the complete opposite of that is cool to me. I wish I didn’t have to have an Instagram! I would love to not have to deal with that.
We’re all glum over here, but he’s all got something we don’t have! Real privacy.
Yeah! He’s fortunate to have made the money he did and now he can live the life he wants to.
How’s your life been going lately? We’ve talked about it a bit the few times we’ve tried to line up an interview. You live a pretty hectic life!
It’s as hectic as ever! My daughter is about to turn four in a couple of weeks and she’s not really at that point yet where she’s in school all day, so I juggle a lot at the moment. I have a couple of jobs that I do here in Jacksonville: I work in a metal fabrication shop, a tree service, do the Dad thing, and create whatever I can through a camera as well.
So you’re part-time with all of that stuff?
I would say so. I’m super fortunate that I don’t have to do “normality,” although there was a point in my life where I was doing that, reporting to work every week on my set schedule. In my later years I’ve been able to find friends that own their own businesses and understand my situation enough to let me come and go. They work with me super well. They’re stoked when they can use me, and when I can help them out I make sure to bust my ass to keep that relationship strong.
There are weeks where I tell them, “Hey, I have my kid Tuesday and Thursday, I can’t work those days.” And they’re totally cool with it and schedule me on different days. It’s a super flexible relationship I have with those guys. I’m lucky in that realm, for sure. My buddy Dave owns the metal shop, it’s called Main Made. And my buddy Durham owns Durham Parker’s Tree Service.
You cut down trees and shit?
Yeah… [laughs] Durham is actually a certified arborist, so he’s very knowledgeable with plant life. We don’t just take down trees and stuff for nothing. We do a lot of dead tree removal, stuff that might endanger housing, and taking care of trees basically.
Do you guys deal with invasive species as well?
Absolutely.
My sister coincidentally studied forestry at Purdue, so she’s really into that stuff. She works for the Conservancy in Gary, Indiana.
That’s cool! Is that where you are, Indiana?
Yeah, we’re about an hour outside of Gary.
Has it been negative fifty degrees there lately?
It has! I’m not sure what the true temperature was, something around negative twenty. But yeah, it was cold as shit!
That’s crazy! We don’t do cold down here. Summer’s get hot, but nothing to complain about.
You’ve always been in Florida?
I was born in Orlando, yeah. I lived there, and I’ve been in Jacksonville for about eight years now. Florida has always had a pretty solid racing scene, which is wild. In the mid-2000’s it was really wild. We used to have this series called the Florida Gold Cup Series, and the Winter Ams series. I’d be in the 85 class and there’d be three qualifiers to get into the second moto! It was super gnarly. It’s the complete opposite now, there’s no one here anymore unless you’re training. The local racing has really gone away.
Loretta’s still pulls big numbers. Mini O’s, JS7 Spring Championship, and that SX Futures series seems to be doing alright as well. On a local level it doesn’t really seem to make sense to race anymore.
I think that SX Futures series is only going to grow, too. It’s pretty rad to see them do that. The coolest thing I’ve been hearing about the series is that the fees aren’t astronomical. It’s a set amount for each class, $65 I believe. That’s insane to be able to race in the same stadium as the pros. If you go to Mini O’s, it’s around $125 for a class. It might even be more now actually, but that’s a great event too. I think the Futures series is great for the sport, for sure.
It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. I got some questions set up here if you want to jump in. How much time do you have?
As much time as you need. I’ve been psyched to get to do this, so I want to do it right!
It seems like you’re pretty deep into this Document Magazine project. This is the second year you’ve been doing it?
I think the first issue came out in March of 2017. It’s about to be two years coming up, I suppose. It feels like I’ve been doing it for much longer, because I’ve learned so much since I started. I pretty much started something from scratch, by myself, and I said that when I started that this would get easier over time – but it hasn’t! The more qualified I try to make it, the more organized I try to make it, the more I find on my plate every day. That’s why I’ve kind of taken a little step back lately, and I’m looking for a little reincarnation of the project in March of 2019. The magazine is kind of re-releasing itself at Daytona again this year, and I think it’s been since Des Nations that I’ve been working on this second iteration of the project. I finally gave it an official name too! Lots of restructuring and progression going on in a way that I see fit.
I noticed a few weeks back that your Instagram handle went from document.magazine to uniform.x.x.x. as well – How does that relationship work? Are you becoming your own publisher as well as content creator?
Basically, yeah. I decided to call the whole thing Uniform, since it’s such an unconventional business model. We don’t have deadlines, we don’t have set projects, and we really don’t even know what we’ll get into! My community has been building in regards to outside contribution, which is something that I’ve been striving for since the beginning. I never wanted it to be a platform that only hosted my own work. I never wanted to create something that might as well be my name with all of my work under it. I wanted to create this platform that gives anyone who wants to create uniquely to utilize. A platform that is respected and worth putting things out on.
That’s one of the reasons why I’ve always struggled with the social media side of things, because I don’t think social media platforms are deserving of any type of meaningful content. Social media is something that is wildly overestimated. People just scroll past all of your posts to see the next best thing, no matter how cool the content you put on there is.
But that’s what we’ve been doing behind the scenes, growing and creating. I’ve even gathered a few friends on board, like my buddy [Nebraska-based Florida transplant] Chase Couture. He helped push me in the right direction with design and learning in that space. I’ve really just been trying to gather some consistency with this whole thing. We’ll have a website by March with some regular features, always plugging different artists. It’s not completely stepping away from dirt bikes, but we do want to showcase beyond that. My ties will always be dirt bikes, that’s my lineage and where most of my work comes from, but I’ve always been heavily into music and skateboarding as well, and I want to be able to explore that.
It’s tough making it in the motorcycle industry. I mean, I always knew it was hard because I’ve known people in the industry, but I never really knew until I put something out with a dollar sign on it. I’m at that age too where you experience that transitional period of losing friends, or not having as many friends as when you were young. Now once you put something out that all of your buddies want for free and you say, “no,” you start to lose more friends than you want to! It’s been wildly educational. I never went to school for this stuff, so it’s been a huge learning curve.
I understand that your brother Austin has been doing things with Fox Racing over in Europe. Have you always had a window into the industry through him?
It really started with my Dad, who grew up racing in the seventies when all of this madness was getting started. He rode for American Suzuki back in the day and was good buddies with Mark Barnett. I’ve known Mark since I was in diapers, basically. My Dad was our family’s gateway into the world of dirt bikes and through that we’ve always had close ties with the Fox family, all while relevant throughout the sport’s ups and downs. We were around when it wasn’t cool, when it was popular, when it was crowded, when it was empty… I was born and raised at the track and I never really left. I’ve seen plenty of people come and go, and I think the key to our success has been that we stuck around, stayed relevant, and stayed true to the sport. We’ve always been loyal and trustworthy.
When my brother finished school he was lucky enough to get a job with Fox out in Irvine, California, and they just recently moved him out to the European headquarters in Barcelona, Spain. That’s how all of this [Uniform] kind of started, because I was never sent to a race by a media company with orders on what to shoot. I more or less fell into this, because the way I saw it, those were just my friends out there racing and I happened to take some cool pictures of them. I was already into photography through skateboarding and punk rock music, and while I didn’t always have the nicest gear I found myself in great situations.
You were more or less a fan with unlimited access, and a camera! You could probably get into a lot of situations that most staff photographers couldn’t.
I wouldn’t catch any judgement from the riders either, and I know how they can be with the general media sometimes. I’ve never been around the riders with a recorder or anything like that, asking them questions and shit, I’ve just been amongst them. I would never name any names, but knowing what I know, the way the athletes still talk to me is crazy. They talk because they know I’m trustworthy. I’ll hear stuff from them and once it goes live on Instagram every media outlet jumps on top of it and covers it to the point where it becomes mundane. It’s repetitive. That mentality is everywhere though, just look at politics now, news outlets are practically reporting off of Twitter-based accusations. The world is so skewed by all of these devices that everyone’s addicted to. It’s unreal.
There’s so much of that behavior going on that I’d almost liken it to shouting into the void.
There are no more surprises anymore. No curiosity. Everybody already knows everything because it’s all out there.
You wrote a bit about that relationship you have with riders in issue five of Document. You were at Chad Reed’s place shooting some photos. You wrote, “We’re not here to report, we’re here to support.” You’re a confidant to these people.
It’s surreal to get that from Chad. I never in my life would have thought that guy would be someone who trusted me, or even spoke to me! It’s insane. Another one is Ricky Carmichael. He’s the best dude, ever. Forget about anything he ever did on a dirt bike, he’s just one of the most genuine humans that I’ve ever come across. He’ll give you his full attention and listen to you when you’re talking to him, no matter what you’re talking about. He’s one of the best dudes I know.
Stepping back a little bit, before working with Evergood and starting Document, was 24exp the trial run for what would eventually become Document?
Yeah, 24 Exposures. It was the first step, I’d say. I have a super interesting relationship with names, meaning that I’ve always struggled with naming things. I think naming things is one of the hardest tasks in the world… and then I had to name a kid! It took my wife and I so long to name our daughter.
This all started when I was a kid though, because my parents gave me a name that they never once called me by, so I always went by my middle name. It didn’t help that my mother taught my public school classes from preschool to fifth grade, so I didn’t know my legal name until I got to middle school. I was eleven in sixth grade, and at that point in your life everything is just exploding and everything’s changing. I lived pretty close to downtown Orlando, and middle school was a snowball effect of bad things for a lot of kids. I watched a lot of kids I grew up skating with take some bad turns around eighth and ninth grade. I’m pretty much scarred from names.
But yes, 24exp was the first attempt. It was a feature I did towards the end of Vurbmoto’s tenure and I think they might’ve actually called it “Film Burned.” I typically shoot 36 exposure rolls anyway, which I started doing around the time I turned twenty, but I learned how to shoot when I was fourteen or sixteen.
Shooting on film?
Yes. I started when I was fourteen, and I had a photography class when I was sixteen and learned how to work in the darkroom and such. From about seventeen to twenty though, I was pretty focused on racing and I wasn’t creating as much. 24exp was just a name I came up with so I could start putting out content, and plus a thirty-six roll never came out that well anyway, so I figured twenty-four was a good mark to get stuff that’s usable.
You mind if I talk about Evergood for a bit? You mentioned that a little bit ago.
Not at all.
There’s a lot of fuzziness there with people’s perception between myself and the Evergood group. I’m not technically a part of that group, and those guys are just my buddies. Tom [Journet], [Eric] Shirk, and Matty [Matt Rice] are all awesome dudes, and anytime they come knocking and need help I’m there for them. Besides that, I don’t really have much to do with that.
So you’re more like the fifth Beatle, then?
I don’t even know if it’s that… I’m more like a pair of shoes that are kept away in the closet if they need it for a wedding. It’s pretty irregular. I help them with their races, mostly. They did two last year and one the year before that. I have a lot of event experience so I’m good with setup and I’m not afraid to bust my ass to do what I have to do. Whether it’s getting banners up all over a track, or spending a whole night driving someone to and from the airport. I’m just a team player and those are my boys, I’ll be there anytime they need me.
That’s awesome to hear there’s so much camaraderie between you guys. It’s not so much about competition as it is about collaboration.
Absolutely. Collaboration is my main goal and another reason why I’m transitioning away from calling this a magazine, because I don’t want to be associated with as a magazine brand. At the end of the day, I’m just a creator trying to put good into the world. I don’t want to make enemies with Racer X and I don’t want to piss of Motoplayground, I just want to be even-keeled with everyone and not step on any toes. I’m here to be amongst the sport that I love. I’m not trying to make a dollar off it… I’m just not trying to lose any more dollars.
Speaking of collaboration, the last issue of Document was chock-full of collabs from guest photographers and writers. You’ve got Garth Milan, Christian Spinella, Chase Lock…
My good friend Jordan Hunt from Australia, he was a welcome addition as well. There’s going to be zines throughout the year in 2019, much like in years prior, that are more punk-rock and organic. Not so perfect. There may be some projects that come out featuring my own works and words exclusively, but I have plans to go beyond that. I want to introduce a year-end photo book this year like we did in September of last year. That one will be on a larger scale with multiple contributors and be more of an open space. That’s truly what I’m striving for, to make an open space for creation. No set guidelines, nothing uniform. Sticking with the out of the ordinary.
I spoke with Ben Giese last year about META and his thoughts on the future of the publication, and that was one of the ideas he bounced around [having a photo annual]. It’s interesting to hear you share the same sentiment – to relieve the pressure of a monthly magazine – but even META still operates on a three-month schedule. You’re taking it a step further and going with no set plan.
Yeah, and I think that really derives from feeling. I’m never one to force things, I want things to come out as organically and pure as possible because I think that’s when pure feeling is showcased properly. I had a ‘zine all but wrapped up from Loretta Lynn’s this year, and I didn’t like it. I finished it, and I said, “You know what, I don’t like this. I’m not going to do it.” And, I didn’t waste my money!
For the past two years I’ve been doing this, I’ve been dipping into my own wallet and paying for it. At this point, operating solely in the dirt bike world, it hasn’t come to fruition the perception of how people think about the project. People just don’t really grasp it. The support is there, people will tell you all day long how rad your project is, but at the end of the day it boils down to whether or not that person is going to buy what you’re selling. Thanks and appreciation don’t pay your rent, you know? That’s why I’ve been bouncing around doing whatever jobs I can to keep my life operational. You’ve gotta live!
I don’t want to say you have to reprogram the audience, but what you do and what META do are the antithesis to the industry’s media norms of the last fifteen years. The monthly magazines, the race reports, the injury lists…
[All of that content] makes it irrelevant. It’s almost numbed me to the sport. On the other hand, it’s adjusted the relationship I have with the sport once again. I’ve gone through some shit, obviously, as racing didn’t quite pan out for me – another thing I did out of my own pocket as well. Luckily my Dad loves it and he’d help as much as he could so I wasn’t going broke, but I didn’t have any money outside of that. We were putting everything into it and it just didn’t pan out, which allowed me to step away.
I always maintained that relationship I had with Fox though, and when I came back to the sport I got thrown into a job with a camera. Fox knew I made stuff, but up and to that point I had never even filmed a dirt bike in my entire life. A few weeks before Loretta Lynn’s they called me up and pitched this video idea to me. I felt a little odd about it, but I’d never say no to those guys! If they believed I could do it, I’d do it. I ended up doing really well with that, and the following weekend I was up in Maryland filming a championship video for Kenny [Roczen]. It all spiraled from there.
It also pushed me to a breaking point, in a way. It stressed me out because I wasn’t ready, and it was stress that was all my own. There wasn’t anybody telling me that I wasn’t good enough, or that I needed to improve this or that, it was all on me. It was stuff I was doing to myself that made me not even want to film dirt bikes, really. It’s been an interesting journey for me in the media world of dirt bikes. Lately, it’s been scaled back as far as the work that I do. There’s not really much work for me knocking at the door right now, but it allows me to pick and choose how I create and who I can work with. It’s much more open, which is the best.
I’m more involved and in-tune with riding than ever, meaning I’m racing more than ever too, which is great because I’ve always needed that in my life. I keep my relationships in the industry just by being at the track, really. I think it rubs some people the wrong way [when I’m at the track] and I say, “No, I won’t make you an edit.” Or, “No, I can’t take your picture.”
Dude… I know! [laughs]
But I have to be truthful with them as to why I don’t. If I’m taking pictures that day and they ask if I got one of them I’ll say, “Oh no, sorry. I shot a couple of my friend, but that’s it. I’m just here to race as well.”
That hits close to home. Sorry!
No, that’s good! I’m glad. That’s how it should be, you know? It stinks because some people just started coming to the races that don’t ride or race, and they’ll go and blast a thousand photos that anyone can download. At the end of the day sure, it’s good work, but that’s not something that I want to be doing. I can’t bring myself to that. It rubs people the wrong way when you’re not like that and people go, “Oh, you’re a dude with a camera at the track, why don’t you do it like this guy does?”
And I have to go, “Well, I’m not that guy!”
“Can you make me an edit, bro?” …No! [laughs]
They’re like, “Oh, I’ll give you $40 for an edit!”
“…Nah, I’m actually good. You know this is really fucking hard, right?” [laughs]
It’s crazy. I’ve raced Loretta’s a couple of times, and I’ve worked Loretta’s even more. Let me tell you, it is ten times harder to go shoot with a camera all day than it is to race that event. It’s just grueling. People don’t get it. We’re lugging cameras around all day, even in the slop when it’s awful out. For example, when I met you at Des Nations I could tell you were just exhausted! That’s just how it is. Sometimes you want to do that though, and it feels good.
It’s hard to explain.
It can also become a whirlwind, to where you can’t really take in what’s going on around you. Sometimes I find that when you’re really putting your best foot forward to try to execute, you’re missing out on the essence of the event. It’s so much better with a video camera though, to be amongst the moment. I’ve gone in and out of digital photography a few times; you get so lost with that thing.
I think you wrote about that, about your experience at the Hangtown national. You took thousands of photos and didn’t remember what happened.
Yep, I missed the whole race! And all of my photos ended up looking just like the next guy’s. I also have a roll of film from that day full of amazing pictures.
*Nah, sorry man!*
Sorry, I just got asked for a smoke.
Oh… snap!
I’m in the middle of downtown Jacksonville right now, sitting across from one of my favorite stores.
What’s that?
It’s called Midnight Sun Imports. They have a bunch of obscurities from Indonesia. Jewelry, wood carvings, instruments… that type of stuff. It’s an eclectic place.
Sounds crazy!
Yeah, there’s some interesting stuff around here.
We can get up to Chicago sometimes for the craziness, but there’s really nothing in Indiana. We’ve got five about auto parts stores and a bunch of “shit shops,” which is just old building space that people sell their garbage in. Old records and stuff.
That actually sounds kind of interesting. I love old records!
No, I know what you’re thinking. I love records too but these aren’t worth the dive.
I got to spend about a day and a half in Chicago after Des Nations though, so that was pretty enjoyable. There’s so much culture and food there. That’s a really cool city.
I feel like it’s a really relaxed city too. I don’t know what it is about Chicago that makes it that way.
Good people! Lots of nice people up there. Jacksonville is also a town of really good people as well. But the town I grew up in, Orlando? Bunch of dickheads. [laughs] I think people are pissed off in Orlando because they’re in a tourist town, and they don’t want to be. They don’t like people.
I love tourism though, my Dad worked at Disney for twenty years, and if it wasn’t for tourism he wouldn’t have had that job! I respect tourism, it’s a good thing.
Good people watching, too.
I’d go to Disney a lot because we could get in for free with my Dad, and I’d just go sit in the Epcot Center with a beer from Germany to watch the madness. All of these people who are pissed off for no reason.
My brother though… funny story. This guy talked so much shit to my brother one time. We were all leaving from the park and this guy was dragging his kid along and yelling at him. My bother just kind of chirped him and said, “Happiest place in the world!” And the dude turned around and goes, “You can FUCK OFF!” We were cracking up. Those people get too serious.
Hardcore vacationing.
It’ll get you! It’s like $120 to get into the gate, $4 for a water bottle. That place is a money pit. $30 to park you car. I get it, money just brings stress.
Garth Milan photo from Document, Issue 2
Speaking of money. You mentioned Document, and now Uniform, is out of your own pocket. You shoot almost exclusively on film as well. Do you recoup costs from selling the mags? Do you get any coin from the ads you run?
I think in this issue I’ve had six ads I believe, which they all start at the root of a friendship, those ads. I’m fortunate enough to have that friendship with Fox still, and the other ones as well. It’s not a large chunk of money, but every ad that went in there was one less dollar out of my pocket. The goal with starting to utilize ad space was to minimize out-of-pocket expense, and all I can say is that we got closer to where we want it! There’s still some costs I have to handle because working in print isn’t cheap, but it’s something that I believe in and that’s where we’re going to stay.
Everyone will start to see some more online content though, but I want it to stay relevant to what’s printed in the pages. There’s some regular online features to be looking forward to, 24exp being one of them. That idea will transition into an online page where two film photographers will be featured every month. Who knows, maybe every week? It just depends on how much we grow and how much people want to showcase. That’s where the video camera I recently bought comes in as well, because obviously you can’t put a video onto paper!
The website will be called “uniformco.internet.” At this point, the three x’s on our Instagram mean that we’re getting ready to launch. A subtle vagueness to touch on rebellion. We’ll have “uniform – instagram,” “uniform – internet,” and “uniform – documents.” It’ll all be similar, but now it’s under the Uniform name. Since it’s all out of the ordinary, it’s becoming a uniform thing for us.
That all sounds pretty ambitious!
I hope I can make it all happen! I think it’s February now, and I have more on my plate than ever, but I think I can do it. I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s so good to be able to have your hands in everything, not that I lust for control, but it’s nice to be involved in what you love. It’s like you’re betting on yourself, putting all your trust in yourself. Instead of taking out a school loan, I put all that money into myself and these projects, and I remind myself of that every day. It gets super stressful, but you just have to hold on to the dream.
I think in art circles that money is best spent on yourself, not in school. Not to say that higher education is inherently bad.
No way! To each his own. At the end of the day, school is for yourself. No one goes to school for someone else. Well, you do until you’re eighteen and decide to go to college, which is why I never went!
I couldn’t even stand high school, I couldn’t stand that they thought this was the way you should be taught. I never learned from that environment. I always operated on my own terms, and I always did good in school, but I wasn’t awarded with good grades because I didn’t do it how they were asking me. I was still recognized by my teacher’s for not sucking, basically. They weren’t going to give me an A, but I got a C because I did good.
You were the kid who didn’t study or listen and then ace’d the test?
I think I listened too well. I was too aware and too willing to rebel. I wasn’t afraid to talk to my teachers like they were my peers, in a way. I wasn’t afraid to weigh in on the topics they had and question them.
They’re sitting there going, “Jordan, just shut up and listen!”
“Why can’t you just listen to what I tell you?”
I don’t believe in a writing structure. If I told my old English teachers that I write and publish my own work, they’d probably laugh at me! They’d say I sucked at writing. I don’t think I do though, I just didn’t want to write what they wanted me to. What’s a sentence structure in early schooling? I don’t even know. They used to force you to start paragraphs with certain terminology. There was a set way to start everything.
You’d have your introductory sentence. Certain phrases. Maybe write an essay about a specific topic.
Yeah, it’s too much. They’re just brainwashing you, is all. They’re funneling people through a system that makes you believe in a type of lifestyle that they want to you live. They want you to rely on a certain income because they plan to make X amount of dollars off of each one of us. There’s a big old system of puppeteers somewhere.
There are some big unknowns out there. I’m sure anything is possible. Not to say that you’re crazy or anything.
It’s ok to be a little crazy! You’ve got to be a little left field.
You also have to be careful of what you say and how you say it, especially when it comes to these things. There’s always someone listening, watching, and paying attention to what you’re doing. All of that shit. People will snatch you up and take you to that Area 51 place.
We’ve been talking for almost an hour. It’s gonna be raw in the transcribing session! I’ll let you know when I’m done so you can look it over if you want anything taken out.
Thanks. I’m a pretty honest person and sometimes I get worried about what I say and what might get put out there, but I’m also learning to just trust my voice lately. The content that will start coming from me on Uniform in the coming months will be a little more unique. I’ve held back, for sure. I’ve got some interesting outlooks on life, I’d say. I’m trying to let those truths out a little more and not fear judgement.
I think there’s some value to that, in writing. It may put people off, but that ultimately might not be somebody you want associating with your work.
I think that’s what’s going to really take me away from dirt bikes a bit, because it’s not a super open-minded community. I’ve been getting super involved in my local area, and luckily Jacksonville is a pretty youthful town with an emerging art scene. I’ve really just scaled back. I’m not going to Anaheim 1 to try to get a picture like everyone else, I’m finding uniqueness in other worlds while keeping ties with the sport I love.
That’s what’s cool about it, and the gathering I’ve gotten from the sport so far, they understand that. I don’t really think they’re going to go anywhere. Maybe we’ll grow more in the world of dirt bikes, maybe we won’t, but the truest thing is that we don’t want anyone supporting us that doesn’t believe in us. We don’t want internet warriors talking shit on every post we make. We don’t want hostility. I promote a happy lifestyle; to each his own. Everyone has their own obstacles to overcome in life and we’re open to hear from anyone or put out any type of thing. We can find beauty in all.
You can find Jordan occasionally on Instagram at @jordanhoov, or in and around Jacksonville.
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